Part 2 of the UPenn “The Process” Podcast series continues with conversations about college rankings, whether to take the SAT and/or ACT, the Financial Aid process and the college essay (This audio is from The Process originally aired on SiriusXM 111). Here’s a summary of the notes from the podcast:

Podcast 2: The Process- College Rankings, SAT vs. ACT and Financial Aid Process 

• Eric Furda- Dean of Wharton School of Business & co-host Eileen Cunningham Feikens- Director of College Counseling at the Dwight-Englewood School & guest David Charlow- Financial Aid expert & guest Elizabeth King- President of Elizabeth King Coaching/Written books on outsmarting the SAT and acing the ACT
• College Rankings
  • How do these rankings affect students?
    • Feikens: Rankings are a starting place for families, especially those families were parents have not gone to college
  • Do rankings form the mind of the people who come to you for advice?
    • Feikens: I don’t know the recipe for the rankings and I am honest with them
      • Change is always happening among rankings à Nothing is constant
      • I think a revisit, like an overnight visit, can give students a lot of perspective into a school- A lot of students use it to confirm their choice
    • Early admission process- Binding process
      • Scholarships (and housing) are often looked at in during choosing early admission
      • David: From the standpoint of affordability, families should avoid early admission processes because it eliminates the opportunity for families to compare school prices
        • At the same time, some of the big schools do offer good financial aid packages for students and so if it’s your first choice and you know it will be affordable for you, then do not dismiss early admission
        • Rare for students to be released based on affordability
      • Feikens: Also important to consider what parents are willing to pay?
        • How do you warrant the value of the place you really want to go?
        • How do you determine the return on investment?
          • Lots of things go into the creation of the college list
    • What are you seeing as families decide which test (SAT or ACT) to take?
      • Feikens: Many questions about which test to take and I always say it depends on the child
        • Both Elizabeth and I agree that students should take a real practice test to judge comfort
        • Decrease in the number of schools requiring subject tests
          • Feikens suggest students still take 1 or 2 subject tests in case one school they apply to still does require them
        • King: Take practice tests on the ACT or SAT website- that way, they can score themselves and not have to worry about how a test prep center interprets their scores à their interpretations sometimes drive anxiety
          • New SAT has been scaring many people- it seems easier in some parts but is also more difficult to “game”
          • Not harder or easier than the ACT- students need to judge their comfort
    • Question from caller: How do you weigh the value of a school when you’re student is undecided?
      • Furda: My advice is to look for an institution where there is flexibility
        • Sometimes the application will give you insight into the sense of flexibility in the curriculum
      • Feikens: There are a number of universities to major/minor or switch colleges
        • A lot easier to switch out of harder to get majors like engineering than it will be to switch into an engineering later on
        • In terms of size, look into the program size, maybe not as shocking as the big population of the entire school
        • Also look into how big/how accessible academic advising is
      • King: I applied as math/physics major and then at school designed a degree with cultural economics
        • You can do whatever you want if you find a school that will give you that freedom
        • Consider that not only your mind is changing but also your brain- you want to find a school where you can trust that your brain will develop
    • Educational financing- what is some of the jargon that families will see when applying? Need-blind, need-aware etc.
      • David: Need-blind and need-aware are admission policies, not financial aid policy
        • Need-blind- almost all schools in America are need-blind/they don’t look at whether students can afford the school when admitting
          • They’re not making any promises about whether they will provide financial aid though
    • There is a small universe of schools that have a philosophical mission to look at need-based and make a good faith effort to provide support at full-need
      • Big institutions, like Penn, do give a generous amount in scholarships
      • There are schools, possibly including Mt Holyoke, that run through the admissions process need-blind then they run a simulation based on past class admissions to see if they can afford the incoming class. If not, they go back through the process and shave off some more students that have need and replace them with students that don’t
    • Research your schools and will figure out which schools will be a financial fit
      • Check are they need-based or need-aware. If it’s need aware, meaning they look at financial situations of the family, and you don’t need the aid, don’t check the financial aid box. If you need the aid, check the box.
    • • Feikens: Do you feel that questions about financial aid are best answered by people in the financial aid office than in admissions officer?
      • David: Yes, some of this information is hard to pick off the website but if you have specific questions about financial aid, start with the financial aid website and then call the financial aid office.
        • This is for need-based because merit-based is determined within the admission process
    • Question: What are ways that students can diversify themselves to stand out in the application process?
      • Furda: There are the parts of his application that he has control over and parts he doesn’t
        • He will need to be reflective and tie all his achievements into a narrative that best displays him
      • Feikens: Students also ask me how do I show my interest to the institution
        • There is one type of demonstrated interest that trumps all others and that is demonstrated knowledge
        • If you student can successfully weave together his interests and how he will utilize the opportunities at that school to help pursue his interests, that will be the most important
      • King: Most important part of a narrative is to include things about yourself now
        • But what were the catalyst moments for students? Alluding to childhood memories maybe to explain how they define themselves now
    • Question: What about topics that students think that everyone will write about?
      • Feikens: Your writing is a vehicle for whatever message you are trying to send about yourself
        • First think about the message, then look and the prompts and decide what vehicle you use
        • Don’t talk about others, talk about yourself- be reflective
          • The student should be the main topic of the narrative
          • Why are you writing about this and what does it say about you?
    • Question: Does this process help encourage good writing? Does the process constrict strong writers?
      • Feikens: Consistency- Many students have people read their main essay but is there consistency in their writing style in their sample writings
        • Use those sample writings to highlight a different facet of yourself
        • Don’t have a resume essay- give the admissions officers something else to think about
      • David: Take your writing assignments in all of high school seriously
        • Quality of writing has gone down in recent years in applications
        • Students need to learn to read well
      • Furda: Scores can go up but how is their writing once they come here?
    • • Remember, the formulation of the college list is where you have 100% control. A college cannot make you apply to them

About the Author

Tim Ranzetta

Tim's saving habits started at seven when a neighbor with a broken hip gave him a dog walking job. Her recovery, which took almost a year, resulted in Tim getting to know the bank tellers quite well (and accumulating a savings account balance of over $300!). His recent entrepreneurial adventures have included driving a shredding truck, analyzing executive compensation packages for Fortune 500 companies and helping families make better college financing decisions. After volunteering in 2010 to create and teach a personal finance program at Eastside College Prep in East Palo Alto, Tim saw firsthand the impact of an engaging and activity-based curriculum, which inspired him to start a new non-profit, Next Gen Personal Finance.

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